Discuss.
June 5, 2010 | filed under: Sex | tweet it, baby
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say it isn’t so.
please.
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
@Jesse, I can’t really determine if it is or is not so. So I asked…and I suspect that if you actually ask for what you want, you sometimes get it.
(So make sure it is what you want!)
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Is the other woman his wife?
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
@David Jones, nope. phew.
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It might not be as bad as it sounds…
but I’ve been thinking about monogamy and polyamory.
In theory, I “get” polyamory. It makes sense to me. I can talk a good game about it and in favour of it.
It does not, however, make sense to my green eyes. And they are very green today.
[Reply]
David Jones
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
@Kelly Diels, Kelly Green?
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@David Jones, jealous Kelly green. Not attractive.
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Are you sure you didn’t mean to say “disgust”? Or are you thinking of the exploits of other unnamed characters that may have become known to you recently.
Because, gosh-darn-it, I’ll do it it if I have to, but only if he needs to listen to the sound of my big. black. boots. ?
Hugs and butterflies,
~T~
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
@PicsieChick, this is all about me, baby.
I’ve stopped trying to predict what other people are thinking and doing so that I can get real clear about what is and is not ok with me.
Beginnings are weird. When is a new relationship exclusive? What if we haven’t had The Talk? (I hate The Talk and avoid it.) Is monogamy the only way? What if I’m okay in theory with polyamory and then realize that I can’t do it? (Yeah, I can’t do it.) Is that bait and switch? Is it possible to have your cake and eat it too? And do I want to? Just what is it that I want, anyway?
I know what I don’t want:
crumbs.
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PicsieChick
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
@Kelly Diels, Detachment and loving acceptance. Some claim these can be sexy bedfellows, others that they are at the furthest reaches of the universe.
I don’t know the answer.
Only that I won’t stand for you accepting crumbs.
And that the truth is somewhere, or everywhere, in between.
Glad that you’re feeling light hearted about it! I think it’s time for me to mix that Mama Like I’ve been thinking about, and follow along with the discussion.
Hugs and butterflies,
~T~
[Reply]
Christopher
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:31 am
@Kelly Diels, I know from silent (and sometimes very vocal) observation of my parents’ relationships that monogamy and polyamory aren’t as different as many seem to think: The same behaviors make each stronger, the same behaviors will tear them apart.
Having a problem you didn’t expect isn’t bait and switch unless one of the parties involved chooses to see it that way rather than deal with the situation, so having your cake and eating it too is just a matter of baking enough cakes and making sure you and your partner(s) agree on the recipe(s).
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Dave Doolin
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
@PicsieChick, aren’t you supposed to be suffering through moving your virtual real estate?
Back to work with you!
Boots are cool. Black boots cooler. Especially if you’re a stomper (‘X’) instead of a shuffler (‘x’).
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kellydiels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
@Dave Doolin, knee high black stilettos are best.
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PicsieChick
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:59 pm
@kellydiels, I prefer thigh high platforms.
Not as sharp, but a wider strike area.
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John C Davies
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 12:10 am
@kellydiels, “knee high black stilettos”———-> *whimper* yes mistress. *shudders* I HAVE been bad. *salivates a tiny bit*
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@John C Davies, you have to stop peeking in my windows. You’re giving all my secrets away.
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PicsieChick
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@Dave Doolin, Uh, yes. Take a look…it’s getting there
Nothing increases the stomp factor more reliably that big. black. boots. It’s a guarantee.
H&B
~T~
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and y’all. I promise this is light-hearted. I’m not curled up in a ball somewhere sobbing. Promise.
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Oh, these are always so tricky to navigate.
My best thought comes in lyrics from India.Arie:
You don’t have to stay forever,
I’ll take passion over pride.
(Long Goodbye- Testimony Vol. 2 Love & Politics)
(GREAT album! You should go get it.)
What is it that you need right now? Do you have the time and energy to give to something that’s not going to be fully reciprocated? Are you already in love with him?
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
@Jeannie, oh those are some EXCELLENT questions.
I dreamed about a garden last week. About planting all kinds of useless things that will never grow: spoons. bars of soap. barbie shoes. wedding rings from broken marriages.
And I woke up thinking, Would you bother planting a garden if you knew it would never grow?
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nicole.
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 11:25 am
@Kelly Diels, But what is there to “grow?” Do you already have an end result in mind that would complete that garden analogy, because maybe you just really want to bury your spoon in the dirt – and that’s ok too.
I’m struggling with a similar situation, so I love this conversation.
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Ronna
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
@Jeannie, I TOTALLY love this album and this song. PERFECT soundtrack for this post!!!
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I’m happy to hear it’s light hearted.
And to be honest as soon as I saw the title I started thinking about songs.
“Stay” is right at the top, but be careful, it might put you in a corner.
Much love lady. You rock my virtual world.
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 8:36 pm
@Joshua, by Lisa Loeb? I’m not ashamed to admit that I know the lyrics by heart. I wore that song out on more than one occasion.
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Nicki
replied:
on June 7th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@Joshua, or “Stay” by Sugarland as that makes me think of this discussion.
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If I didn’t know the context, I’d be calling you immediately to find out what in the hell happened. But because I DO know the context, I’m laughing out loud, completely proud of you, and recognizing you for the brilliant, stunning, powerful, and beyond-belief goddess that you are AND fully assuming that he recognizes you for the same.
Oranges to be cast at your feet in worship in mere hours, no doubt!
Love your truth-telling, woman! More please!
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This post is a piece of a conversation I had with my heart/soul-sister friend, Ronna Detrick.
Here’s her take on it:
http://www.ronnadetrick.com/truth-telling-women-more-please/
And my comment on her piece:
http://www.ronnadetrick.com/truth-telling-women-more-please/#comment-2440
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PS “kinda” is the least accurate word in this title. He DOES make me happy. Very.
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Resonance again, Kelly.
A promise is a cloud; fulfillment is rain. ~Arabian Proverb
We always know when it gets cloudy, even if we’re not looking up. You can feel clouds. You can sense the exact moment when the rain falls, even if you are all curled up in a ball in your bed.
When you sense the clouds, you can either embrace the rain or get an umbrella. Not sure if an umbrella will protect you from this cloud.
The rain that falls will soon dry.
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:46 am
@Gail, poetry. poetry. beautiful, my friend.
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Hey, Kelly. Sorry you’re hurting. It’s tough when we find out we’re not on the same page as our partner. The important thing now is that you’ve opened a dialog on the subject and clarified for yourself what your feelings are.
As you said, an intellectual acceptance means little if we aren’t there emotionally, and now you know. Find out where he is and see if there’s any overlap. It feels like dreams are crumbling now but it’s always better to clarify these things sooner rather than later.
Time heals broken hearts. Sleep helps too.
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 5th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
@Siddhartha, I’m actually happy. I voiced my discomfort and I think all will be well. Very well.
The title of this piece came from a giggly conversation with Ronna Detrick just a couple of hours ago. She made sure I heard what I was saying, and we laughed about it. We laughed because it isn’t like me to say something like that. We laughed because it doesn’t really, accurately capture the situation. We laughed because what woman has NOT been in the midst of this dilemma sometime in her life?
And we laughed because no way will I be disappointed. No way.
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I know this feeling!
I am living the polyamory question right this very minute as my Love of 15 months had his first date and sex with someone else this week. I freaked out. I almost gave up and created some wreckage in the process. Then I realized that no one could do the kind of damage to our relationship and intimacy that my own fear can. I refuse to let the wounds of my past ruin the best love I have ever known.
I truly believe in poly, so it isn’t a compromise in that regard. But the emotional work it takes to do healthy poly is exhausting and can beat your heart to a pulp.
This is my lesson right now…
“Being present — rather than being emotional — is what allows real intimacy to happen.” John Welwood
Now I am learning to sit with and witness my feelings instead of judging or trying to run away from them. I’ll let you know how that goes when I come out the other side.
Hugs!
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Kelly,
Discuss? Oh well, all right. ‘cept ima change it a bit for illustrative purposes.
“She Kinda Makes Me Happy When She’s Not With That Other Man.”
I know how this statement made me feel when I first read it but in reality… it is the most simple and logical of truths. Knowing that she is with ME and not that “other man” kinda makes me happy. However, There is so much MORE going on that this is only a small fraction of what defines us as a couple. Hence the whole “kinda” part.
But the first reading didn’t elicit THAT particular emotion… I focused right away on the “that other man” part and forget about ever reading the “kinda happy” part in the first place. I took off my pink glasses and right away put on the green, jealous, ones and I saw hurt, betrayal, sorrow and sadness. I SAW things that weren’t even included in the original statement at the expense of what actually was… “Happy”.
What does that say about me? About what kinda baggage I am hauling around with me from moment to moment? You live with hurt for long enuff and you forget what ‘not hurt’ feels like.
I am currently looking for an airport locker big enough to fit all this crap so that I can leave it behind and do some real exploring.
Any one got change for a dollar?
-J
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What you want seems very clear: You want to be with him in a committed, monogomous relationship. Go get it girl!
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:47 am
@Debbie, yep and yep!
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Why is it that those of us who are not comfortable with polyamory for ourselves, although we may “get it” intellectually, so often find ourselves feeling as if we’re the ones with the problem. We’re not “cool” enough, we’re not “accepting” enough, etc, etc., ad nauseum.
Let’s start with the concept that we’re human; that we have a right to be true to ourselves. Let’s then consider that we also have to accept that people that we love and enjoy may not share our values or perspectives on life and love or our definition of what constitutes a loving relationship. And, ouch!, that means that when we share our views and feelings with those people, they may disagree, and we may be too far apart to be together.
If we sit still long enough and listen to our gut, it always tells us what’s right for us.
Good luck with all this. You’re a smart cookie, cookie.
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He… He? Why is it that we always need a “he” in the equation of happiness for “me”? Interesting!
I look forward to reading your next post, Kelly.
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Honey I smell bullshit. Accepting crumbs/sharing/being ok with polygamy – whatever you want to call it: this is not the righteous babe talking.
Having ‘the talk’ should be a ratification of a situation that you already know is healthy and good for both of you.
It shouldn’t be a nervous, horrid, is he that into me verbal game. Because that then becomes how the thing gets defined (in my experience).
Don’t settle.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:26 am
@sas, not settling. Most definitely.
I love that you said this:
“Honey I smell bullshit.”
This is what I did: I stopped trying to understand the other person and decided to understand the simple truth about what I was feeling.
I was not feeling comfortable. I was feeling hurt. That’s not okay.
So I said that. I didn’t get angry. I just told the truth.
And then I felt really, really good. Giggly-conversation-with-friend good.
Being true to myself feels good.
[Reply]
kareem
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
“Being true to myself feels good.”
you will live a good life if you hone in on feeling good this way
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sas
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
@Kelly Diels, I love that you told the truth. That is an awesome act of power. Just commented on Ronna’s post too.
Telling the truth can only lead to living it. And that is the righteous babe we know!
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You deserve better.
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Kelly:
I have been walking in those shoes (boots?) recently. Here is my mantra, “Know your worth.” Ask for what you want. You are an extraordinary woman and you don’t need to settle. (If you settle now, what in the world does the future hold?) Great dream, by the way. Hugs to you…
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:48 am
@Teresa, I hear truth ringing…and you and I have come to the same conclusion.
This all comes back to the askus requestus muscle that I resolved to work. If I don’t ask for what I want for myself, who will?
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Hey, Lady!
Sounds like one of those bumps in the road. I, personally, don’t agree with him trying to maintain two relationships at once. But, at least, he’s honest(?).
Don’t have “the talk” but don’t ever stop communicating – both listening and saying what your soul feels. Being afraid of the truth kills relationships.
And be sure he reads your blog, if you are okay with that. He should know you have friends.
I’m gonna be thinking about those stilettos for the rest of the day
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:51 am
@Sanford, boots are a recurring theme ’round here. I may have to write a piece: “Sex, money, meaning and ass-kicking, shiver-inducing boots.”
I started a piece last week that I must finish and post:
The only promises that really matter are the ones you keep with yourself.
So yes, I’m listening and saying what my soul feels.
[Reply]
Sanford
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
@Kelly Diels, Looking forward to That post.
As for the rest: I speak more from mistakes than What I’ve done right.
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Hi Kelly!
I’ve been following your blog for a while and I love it
I don’t know you or this man, and hopefully all *is* well.
In general while we all know we “deserve” truth, respect, the whole cake etc. demanding it, asking for it, clarifying where you’re at are never as powerful as demonstrating it.
My ideal approach, the second I have an inkling is to step back into my own outline and create space. This comes from the question I pose to myself – what would I do if I didn’t feel fear of losing this person, or losing control? before I say anything, I’m out when he calls around dinner times a few times a week. I call back maybe the next afternoon sounding breezy and happy and busy, sometimes a little vague about what I’ve been doing and attentive to him in that moment. and its true, because I’m getting back into connections I may have been neglecting, finishing things I had started to accomplish, putting my peace of mind first. not angry and not acting out of fear. Then, after a little while, *after the other person comes back and asks*, explicitly or implicitly, I explain what I want or need. It seems much more likely to create understanding that way, and the other person is more responsive to that, and less reactive to manifestations pressure, anger, fear, control.
There is always enough space for peace.
Hugs.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 8:58 am
@Laura, I asked myself a similar question to you very, very good question.
Yours:
What would I do if I didn’t feel fear of losing this person, or losing control?
Mine:
Am I working on being okay with this (non-exclusivity) because I’m committed to what it represents (polyamory, being “cool”), or because I’m afraid of losing him?
And as soon as I realized that it was the second thing – I was afraid of losing him by asking for “too much” – that I realized This Is Not Okay.
He wasn’t doing anything bad or disrespectful to me.
I was doing something bad and disrespectful to myself by not naming what I wanted and how I felt.
And as soon as I told the truth about my feelings, desires, and expectations, I felt better. I felt light and free. It doesn’t matter how it turns out. It doesn’t matter whether he can or will offer me what I want. (I mean, I care, I truly do, but that’s not within my sphere of control.)
I’m happy. The joy I’m feeling is because I told the truth to myself. I decided not to lose myself even if it meant losing him.
[Reply]
John C Davies
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
@Kelly Diels, John “Likes” this reply.
[Reply]
kareem
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
@Kelly Diels…. this is genius:
“I was doing something bad and disrespectful to myself by not naming what I wanted and how I felt.
And as soon as I told the truth about my feelings, desires, and expectations, I felt better. I felt light and free. It doesn’t matter how it turns out. It doesn’t matter whether he can or will offer me what I want. (I mean, I care, I truly do, but that’s not within my sphere of control.)
I’m happy. The joy I’m feeling is because I told the truth to myself. I decided not to lose myself even if it meant losing him.”
i feel like i hear angels singing, the heavens opening up, and light raining down on you. this realization was an epiphany for me: control what you can, express what you need to express to be true to yourself, and let the chips fall where they may.
stoked you’re feeling great about where you’re at!
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I love this:
“I’m happy. The joy I’m feeling is because I told the truth to myself. I decided not to lose myself even if it meant losing him.”
I think that’s one of our biggest challenges, certainly one of mine – when someone touches our core and all those pesky emotions come up how do we find the space to feel grounded in our own joy, meaning and truth. Once you’ve got that, everything else is gravy
Peace and love to you, Kelly.
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Hi again, Kelly!
Checking into Jealousy Ranch has always intrigued me. Man, we’ve all made stops there and we all wanna check out super fast. Problem is, most exit doors lead straight back to the reception desk. Why? Did Ma and Pa teach us to be jealous? Are we hard-wired that way? Do ovaries get depressed when they’re not the big score?
I snatched a tiny glimpse of an answer last century when I tripped and plunged into porn. No. Wasn’t “acting.” I was a nice Jewish boy with a sex history of only one girlfriend so I wasn’t ready for prime time. Nope. I had just graduated film school, and having run plum outta rent money, I got a call about a job: ”directing” adult movies, which was really weird, ‘cause no way was I anywhere close to being an adult. The gods however, had other plans for me. For two years I hung out with porn persons and they became my friends. Sort of. Ya see, it wasn’t the balling-for-bucks, big paycheck business that kept me attached to them. It was their culture. I was researching it, notebook in hand. (And I got laid too.)
Think about it. What if we all lived in a parallel universe where sleeping with your friends was the norm. Even expected. Would jealousy cease to exit? Or would Thou-Shall-Not-Commit-Cheating stay glued onto our NOT to-do list?
(For those of you reading this reply who currently work in the porn biz, you may or may not agree with my conclusion. Here it is anyway.) Jealousy is not about sex. It’s about breaking a promise, whatever that promise is about. For the human race, the litmus test for loyalty happens to be sex. And when that promise is broken, even if it’s not a whispered promise but an unsaid rule of engagement, that “other woman” borrowing our guy’s intimacy sure seems like betrayal. And it feels like it too. And it hurts. Because…it just does.
And then there’s something else we all need. It’s called Back Up. Meaning, for peace-of-mind and soul, we seek reassurance that the gal we care about (i.e.. LOVE), loves us more than anyone else. And that her love will be demonstrated with sacrifice, as in, stepping away from an “other-man” fun packed fornication. Loyalty (I can’t use that word enough) must be expressed again and again. Not just promised. We all deserve that our special someone will be there for us when we need her, no questions asked. And we must DO the same! And that’s called a promise.
Yeah, I know. Same ole rules. Nothing’s changed. Wonder why…
Now, in the world of porn where anything goes, do those human needs about “do-you-love-me-more?” still exist? From what I observed, yes. I wrote a book about it.
Irv
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
@Irving Podolsky, my darling, I need to read that book and any damn thing you write. mwah.
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You know… hypothetically, maybe the other woman makes me happy, when he’s with you… cuz the knife cuts both ways.
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Kelly Diels
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
@Rebecca, indeed it does. We’re just links in a long chain o’ fools.
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KD: “He Kinda Makes Me Happy When He’s Not With That Other Woman”
Mhh. I’d say that’s not happiness.
That’s RELIEF.
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All I’ve got to say about this is, it takes a talented person to write a one-word blog post and get this much discussion out of it.
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Ronna
replied:
on June 6th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
Indeed.
[Reply]
Nicki
replied:
on June 7th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
@Martha, Definitely and Kelly is that person!
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Kelly – Love the title of the post and so get where you are coming from. I have had that feeling – am I okay with polyamour (short answer is yes but long answer is somewhere around most likely not for me) or do I want a monogamous relationship? My bigger problem is that I know I do not want to marry again in my life. So how do I reconcile the desire for monogamy with the lack of a belief or desire for marriage.
Tell YOURSELF and him the truth and all will be well.
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Kelly, I just have to say:
You are powerful, radiant and stunning in green.
Hugs and butterflies,
~T~
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the reception desk of an office is the most important part of an office in my opinion:::
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Hi, just found this post through Ronna’s blog… I have had both monogamous and poly relationships and really what matters most in both is having clear, open and completely honest communication. If you can have that (first with yourselves, then with your partner) you’ve got it made! That’s not always easy, but as you discovered, it is very freeing! So, wondering how it worked out for you two since it’s been a while since this was posted. Also, I do Naked Life Coaching and Polyamory coaching for anyone who’s interested in exploring that. I don’t believe that humans are ‘hard-wired’ but rather culturally conditioned to respond with jealousy or hurt… I think that if we were raised in a more open and honest society that by nature we would all be bi-sexual & polyamorous, because love is love, and an expression of love is sexual. And human beings are capable of multiple loves, in fact, each love you have increases your capacity for love.
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Wait, am I missing something?? Is there a post attached to the headline or is the headline the full content?
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