It is okay NOT to teach people how to treat you. Unless they were raised by wolves. Then Cold Play or a quick exit is in order. Your call.
Do NOT teach people how to treat you.
Dr. Phil is lying. You don’t teach people how to treat you, because most of us were not raised by wolves and therefore we do know how to properly treat each other.
I was a self-appointed teacher for a long time.
When someone did something off, or wrong, or lacking, I would explain/lecture/harangue and just generally need to talk it out. To fix the offender. To set him (and it was always a him – I don’t bother trying to fix my girl friends or my sisters) straight. To teach him how to treat me.
How condescending. I assumed that he didn’t know how to treat me correctly and that I could teach him.
Of course he knew how to behave properly. He just didn’t. No amount of teaching can fix that.
(I say “he” but there is a whole string of he’s.)
I suspect that attempting to teach someone how to treat you actually teaches them that you don’t know how to treat yourself.
Let’s be clear: I am not talking about walking away or going thermonuclear every time someone accidentally slights you or steps over a line. Absolutely have boundaries. Just don’t appoint yourself the border guard and the rehab/vocational counsellor.
I have a friend, Z. He and I used to be A Thing. When we were A Thing, he drove me off the freaking edge. He’d do something that upset me, I’d explain to him in heated detail what was wrong, and all the multiple, minute and cosmic ways he was wrong, and he’d say “okay.”
Bastard. Just. Refused. To. Engage.
(Hi sweetie. I really do love you and dinner is still on and on you. But you were a gawdawful boyfriend.)
And that – frankly – was awful and the wrong of him to do. Because he really was doing shit wrong. If he wanted to be with me, then he really should have apologized and changed his ways. But he wasn’t sorry and he wasn’t going to change his ways and let’s be honest, he didn’t really want to be with me, either.
So he wasn’t going to deal with my reaction to any of these things. I kept trying to believe he didn’t know how to behave properly with me; he did. He just didn’t want to. All my efforts to fix would be for naught.
His “ok” was simply the acknowledgement of reality. This is the way he was; I could accept it or not but there was no “fixing” it.
So that’s one reason not to fix. It is fruitless.
Here’s another reason: it is controlling and fantastic.
It means you’re treating a person like a lump of clay or a block of marble whence, Michaelangelo-like, you chip your David.
- It means you have a fantasy of what this person/relationship should be and are trying to train the real live person to be your fantasy.
- It means you think you have the inside track on proper behaviour and, mama-like, can train someone.
- It means that you’re signing up to be the teacher.
- It means you’re signing up to be the project manager.
I don’t want to be the teacher, project manager or the mother. I am already those things in every other sphere of my life. I want to be the lover.
And - my sisters, I’m talking to you – would you find it hot if your lover:
Wanted to fix you, teach you, sculpt you, make you into a better person and his fantasy?
I would be fucking appalled and think ‘this guy is a control-freak with Woman Issues’ and run far, far away.
Or try to fix him.
And yet…I think women have been trained to be The Teacher in relationships. To see potential. To kiss frogs. To be the catalyst and path to princedom.
No wonder we have this apparent un-match going on in relationships where women want to commit and work on relationships and fix their partner and men resist commitment and relationships and especially relationships that require work. Who really wants to be reminded of all their flaws and the fixes required?
(except I’m not 100% buying that bill of goods. My male friends don’t seem to have any issues committing or any abiding fear of relationships. Even Z, the batty-making one referenced above, now yearns for a deep, intimate, committed relationship.)
Remember my freak outs attempts to educate Z that were followed by his “okay” that Was Not Okay?
Recently, I freaked out on a different friend of mine and I was totally in the wrong. His response?
“ok.”
And this time, that was the right thing to do.
He didn’t try to teach me how to behave. There was a line that I crossed and he wasn’t going there with me. He wasn’t going to bother to explain why I was wrong; how I should have behaved; how best to make it up to him; or reward me for good behaviour and punish me for bad. I was simply wrong. It was my responsibility to see it, or not.
I saw it. Immediately.
(OMG how I saw it. Insert cringe here.)
And I did my best to fix it, right away, and will most likely not do that again.
(Most likely. Not 100% guaranteed. Perfection is not my thing.)
So Dr. Phil is wrong. So is Cold Play.
You don’t teach people how to treat you. You simply know how you must be treated and accept nothing else. You trust that the people in your life can fix themselves, course-correct, and that they weren’t raised by wolves.
Ok.
About the author
- More at
“(except I’m not 100% buying that bill of goods. My male friends don’t seem to have any issues committing or any abiding fear of relationships. Even Z, the batty-making one referenced above, now yearns for a deep, intimate, committed relationship.)”
Rings true in my experience. Men don’t fear commitment. Not at all.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 12:01 pm
@Dave Doolin, I knew it! Do I get a prize? I totally deserve a prize.
[Reply]
Your post made me reflect on my own life and the unique circumstances I find myself in. Being a quadriplegic means that I am constantly teaching people to simply treat me normally. Some days it’s tough to be that Teacher. I long for that special man to come along that just… knows.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 6:12 am
@Tracy Todd, teaching people the basics is exhausting.
“Some days it’s tough to be that Teacher.”
Truth talking.
[Reply]
I get what you are saying, that many times women settle for less than perfect and assume they can fix that into perfect. But I will say this: I a healthy relationship, you can ask someone to change and they will do it, and they will do it because most healthy people don’t like to annoy other people. They just don’t. We mostly don’t accomplish our goals because 1) we don’t know how to communicate our needs 2) we stay mired in unhealthy relationships (marriages, friendships, etc). When you surround yourself with people who respect you, love you and get you and you only ask for what you need (vs being controlling just to be controlling), people step up to the plate pretty darn quickly. At least that’s been my experience.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 5:42 am
@Alisa Bowman, you’ve totally nailed it: ask vs. fix.
“In a healthy relationship, you can ask someone to change and they will do it, and they will do it because most healthy people don’t like to annoy other people. They just don’t.”
Ask? Totally reasonable and reasonable people – who love you – will “step up to the plate.”
Fix? Different, entirely.
[Reply]
kareem
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 2:25 pm
@Alisa Bowman, “settle for less than perfect” implies that perfect is out there
Before asking someone to change for me, I try to ask myself whether I want them to change, or whether I can change so that their behavior stops annoying me. More often than not (*way* more), I’m the one a changin’ because it’s easier and stresses me out less.
Totally agree with you about asking vs fixing too.
[Reply]
Kelly,
I have been a long subscriber of “teach people how to treat you”, I had never really thought of it from this perspective before.
Thanks for your incites, “wanting to to fix you, teach you, sculpt you, make you into a better person”, I never seen it in that that light, I had always considered it more of creating boundaries.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 5:43 am
@Shannon O | Confessions of a Loving Wife, boundaries are excellent! Communicating them is even better! I’m just saying, don’t make it your job to improve someone else. That’s his/her job.
[Reply]
Wow! I am not even sure I can say more as it is like you are writing my life story. Thanks, Kelly.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 5:43 am
@Nicki, and when you write things like that, I’m not sorry I put my life out there.
[Reply]
I NEVER thought of it this way. This is BRILLIANT, Kelly!
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 5:44 am
@Square-Peg Karen, thank you (I’ll totally take it!).
[Reply]
That’s good stuff. I married one of those guys who won’t engage and never tried to fix me. I finally grew up enough to stop trying to fix him. Fortunately he never really allowed me to. What a blessing. You are absolutely right on with this.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 12:05 pm
@Angie Cox, you might be right, that when you “grow up” we stop trying to fix others. Maybe then we turn that magnifying glass and sacred effort on ourselves.
[Reply]
I paid thousands of dollars to a psychiatrist to learn all this — where were you then?
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 6:12 am
@Dick Carlson, and look! I’m doing it for free.
Possibly I should re-examine my *business* model.
[Reply]
OK, woman: so two days in a row. I get it. I think.
LOVE this! LOVE you!
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 6:13 am
@Ronna, LOVE you back!
(I unblocked myself last week. It is all spilling out)
[Reply]
Hi Kelly,
Have you considered that the fact that the people who aren’t your boyfriend or are in your life any more were taught something?
I think that is what Dr. Phil means. He means the people who stay in your life mostly. People know when NOT to speak to you if you appear cranky. People know when it’s OK to break bad news. People who know you will know what kind of gifts to buy you, what kind NOT to buy, etc. The list goes on and on about how to NOT do things to upset you, how to lift your spirits, etc., etc.
He doesn’t mean that you train people like a dog is trained. He doesn’t mean that you tell them what to do and they do it. People are guided by your reactions rather than what you tell them.
If you insist on telling people what you want in terms of their behavior and if they care about you they will listen but it doesn’t mean they will change. They will just assess whether it is worth it to stick around if they don’t like what they hear. If they feel like you are trying to get them to be someone they are not, then you have taught them something about you…
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:08 pm
@Joseph, I think learning rocks. The kind of teaching you’re talking about is beautiful. I might be getting Dr. Phil’s message wrong but I know that what I’m describing is what I have done. Tried to train a man. Men. Sigh. It isn’t good for anyone and it for damn sure isn’t hot.
Thanks for your thoughtful note, Joseph. I appreciate it.
[Reply]
kareem
replied:
on March 24th, 2010 at 9:27 am
@Kelly Diels, I think Joseph is on to something, but the onus lies on you (the teller) to react to the other person’s behavior once you tell him something’s not ok.
What I mean – It’s fine to tell your partner that something’s not OK (but be sure that it’s a boundary you have, and not an ultimately unimportant expectation you have about your partner being your perfect man). If your partner doesn’t change, you can choose to react based on that information – do you dump him? Realize that what was once a boundary is no longer and be ok with it? Realize that what you thought was a boundary was actually an expectation, and be ok with letting it go? Or you can persist in explaining why it’s not ok and expect them to change (but it sounds like you’ve beat your head against that wall one too many times
That’s my M.O., anyhoo. Another great piece btw!
[Reply]
Nice twist on the concept, and I couldn’t agree more.
And it’s not just men (believe me on this one!!!)
And I don’t do projects.
Hugs and butterflies,
~T~
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 am
@PicsieChick, my new mantra is “I don’t do projects.” How did you know? (Did I give it away?)
[Reply]
As a long-time fixer, and someone frustrated with how ineffective and frustrated this effort can be, this post is extremely helpful, especially to my peace of mind. Insensitive asshole men and control-freak women are everywhere. So are the gender reversals of that truth, including whatever adjectives others apply to me. I love the bottom line here – give respect, demand respect, take no undeserved shit, take your medicine when warranted and don’t be in denial when it is, take care of those you care for (even if it means a little coaching), and walk away from the assholes.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 11:57 am
@Larry, my very favourite story-fixer. Thank you so much. I love the way you broke it down.
“Take care of those you care for (even if it means a little coaching), and walk away from the assholes.”
We need to put that on a billboard. Or my forehead.
I’m so glad you wrote this comment. Thank you, Larry.
[Reply]
brill. simply.
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Kelly, it took me until 33 to GET this: “You don’t teach people how to treat you. You simply know how you must be treated and accept nothing else.”
Such truth in those words. I think the LGBT community could really learn from this statement, if taken to heart. I love this and am having mind explosions on using this as a catalyst for coaching a few of my clients.
Thank you for this, you beautiful, brazen, tell-it-like-it-is soul.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:09 pm
@Dian Reid, If I had a business card, I’d adopt your last line as my tagline:
“brazen, tell-it-like-it-is soul”.
Since I don’t have a business card (I blame Danielle LaPorte), I’ll just have to try and live up to it, instead.
Thank you so much. I’m so glad this landed with you.
[Reply]
When I first heard “you teach people how to treat you,” it was a total revelation. You mean, when I let people treat me like a doormat, I’m teaching them it’s a-ok to walk all over me whenever they feel like it?
I also did the classic overreaction – telling the person in excruciating detail how it was not okay to treat me like this, how it made me feel, how they could do it better, how they could change for me to keep me around. While it definitely came from my own insecurity (is it REALLY ok to tell people they can’t treat me like shit?), it felt like a necessary part of the process. I look back and think that all those words directed at him were really just directed at me. I was convincing myself it was ok to stand up for myself. And I wasn’t going to be convinced unless I went through that ugly phase of directing others how they must now treat me.
Like Alisa Bowman said above, it’s nice to be finally n a place where I can ask for what I need. My peeps are usually grateful for the feedback and happy to oblige. As for everyone else, I learn much more quickly who is trolling for doormats, and who wants to engage in a good relationship.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:11 pm
@Dawn Haney, me too. It was a revelation to me, too. And that revelation led to “excruciating detail” – which, frankly didn’t work but were strangely satisfying in the moment. (Anger takes many forms.)
I like what you and Alisa are saying. It’s true. People who love you do want to be good to you. Of course.
[Reply]
This is one of the best posts I’ve read in a long time. It’s so honest and you articulated what I feel, but cannot put into words. So thank you for writing it. I’m sure you spoke to many women who have been in similar situations.
I’m a proactive type of person and love relationships but dammit, it’s not my choice, prerogative or job to “fix” someone and for the sake of mates/partners they don’t want to be fixed in return.
I love this line: “ou don’t teach people how to treat you. You simply know how you must be treated and accept nothing else.” And let’s not point fingers and make the blame about someone else, let’s take control of what we can control/change and that’s ourselves.
Brilliant and thank you again
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:12 pm
@Grace Boyle, thank you so much. I’m so glad you liked the piece, and liked it enough to join the fray. So happy you’re here.
[Reply]
All I can say is your timing is perfect. To get all woo woo on you, you and the universe are on the same page as far as I am concerned. Spent the last 10 years of my marriage trying to “communicate” (ok fix) my husband. Rationalized that he just didn’t understand what I was saying… if only I could communicate (aka fix) in a different way, maybe he would get it. Come to discover, that he got it, just didn’t want to change it about himself. Lots of “ok” conversations. Was sitting here this morning, wondering if maybe, we could work it out. He “might” change. Realizing he’s not gonna, not my job to make him, someone will love him way better than I did, and the kids and me will be fine. Thanks for the persective…
[Reply]
Deanna
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
@Kymeco, I’m sad and happy for you, Kymeco.
I lived that life–10-year marriage, trying to fix my husband. I’ve been divorced for 13 years and married to a husband I feel no need to fix for 8 years. The kids and I are so much better off.
The sad is for the divorce, which I contend is always sad in one way or another, and the happy is for the promise of a more peaceful and fulfilling life.
And listen to the signs the Universe is sending you. Kelly’s post during your ruminations is a sign.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 pm
@Kymeco, thank you for ‘fessing up with me. I wish I could wave a magic wand and fix it all…oh there I go again with the fixing.
I don’t have answers. This is big stuff. But I’ll tell you what has kept me going in the most trying of times: knowing that no matter what path I choose, I will be ok.
Wishing the same for you.
much, much love,
Kelly
[Reply]
This was refreshing to read. I appreciate how you make no excuses and just see things for how they are. No bullshit because at the end of the day trying to control someone else moves us closer to losing our own control.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
@Daniela Belmondo, I read it somewhere recently, in another context and think this is true: trust is always cheaper than control.
I think the quote refers to businesses and employees, but you can apply it anywhere. Trying to control someone in any kind of relationship is *costly*: peace of mind, communion, faith, harmony, intimacy. You pay for control with all of those things.
[Reply]
Hands down the best thing I’ve read all week. And awesome timing. Beautiful.
[Reply]
I’m a first time reader, thanks to Grace, but WOW what a first post to read! What a great and interesting take on this concept of being a fixer/teacher–which I definitely try to be. This hit home on so many levels. It is exhausting trying to fix someone so that they treat me the way I should be treated. I’ve only recently come to terms with the fact that if they don’t treat me the way I want to be treated then they (and it’s also mostly of the male species) aren’t right for me. Someone who is right would know how to treat me and it wouldn’t be a battle to get them to that place.
Thank you for posting this!
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
@Ashalah, yes. I’m right there with you. Let’s sally forth!
[Reply]
thank you, thank you, thank you.
do I know you? have you been riding around in my car? scary for you that you’ve been inside my head.
thank you
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
@Jesse, I’m in your backseat. I’m invisible.
JK. maybe.
[Reply]
Hmmm, interacting with people seems so complicated. But yes you do have a point. Some people are just assholes and ain’t nothing you can do about it. Although you may want to. If I misunderstood you then I’m sorry. I read what I want to read after all.
[Reply]
Ragnar
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 am
@Ragnar, want being on a more subconscious level of course. Because on a conscious level all I want is the truth. Well not always. I need to stop myself here before I fill up your comment section with my ramblings. Good post, well done, have a good week.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
@Ragnar, you got it, my friend.
[Reply]
OMG, if you could have written this and sent it to me many years ago, how much grief it might have saved! (I say “might” cause I know that I’m damn hard headed!)
Seriously, it took me a long time and some real heartache to get this lesson. And the other part of this lesson, for me, was realizing that I kept falling into this same pattern because I believed that it was the only way to know someone (some “he”) loved me ENOUGH. As in… if he loves me enough, he’ll see that I’m right and change.
Now, I’m trying to practice the concept that “If I love me enough, I won’t wait around for him to make me happy… I’ll do it for myself.”
Sometimes that feels like a harder row to hoe, but it’s much more rewarding than beating my head against a wall trying to train/manipulate/force someone to treat me like I’m special.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:18 pm
@Shauntelle, and how much could we *really* have loved people we were so wildly dissatisfied with? Who would only have been acceptable with lots of alteration?
[Reply]
This hit home for me in so many ways. I see potential in men and them assume that maybe, just maybe, if they’re with the “right girl” (i.e. me) they’ll be motivated to fully realize their potential and turn out to be wonderful, thoughtful men. Instead, I end up getting swooped away by narcissistic, self-involved and hurtful men, totally lose myself in the process, and pour all of my time and energy into trying to fix men who clearly don’t want to be fixed.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but you’re right – if they want to change, there’s nothing standing in their way, and we don’t need to inflict misery upon ourselves by trying to force it to happen.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
@Ellen, me too. me too. Let’s not do this any more, okay? I’m in if you are.
[Reply]
No seriously. I keep re-reading this. I found you originally through Srini and the Blogger Interviews, but Grace linked me to this post today and I can’t even tell you how obsessed we’re becoming with your entire blog and existence.
Looking forward to more, lady – this is good, good stuff.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:19 pm
@Doniree, I’ve seen you around…I’m so glad we’re connecting. I truly appreciate your sweet words.
[Reply]
I just wanted to say this did make me think a lot, about the way I am.. With the guys and even the girls in my life. It’s going to take me some time to process totally.
But also, to say that you write really well. I read some of the back posts and you definitely have one more fan now.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on March 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
@Triya, what a lovely thing to hear. Thank you so much.
[Reply]
[...] It is okay NOT to teach people how to treat you. Unless they were raised by wolves. Then Cold Play o… [...]
[...] Cleavage: It is okay NOT to teach people how to treat you. Unless they were raised by wolves. Then Cold Play … [...]
I just wanted to let you know… I can relate to this SO MUCH right now and it’s exactly what I needed to read.
Thank you
Also, hi! This is my first time visiting your blog and I don’t believe we’ve met.
[Reply]
Great post, completely agree! It is condescending and patronizing and really, we (women) aren’t perfect ourselves.
[Reply]
Dr Johnson would be proud of your proper use of the word “fantastic.”
[Reply]
[...] Z: hi [...]
[...] It is okay NOT to teach people how to treat you. Unless they were raised by wolves. Then Cold Play o… [...]
Hello–
I love your blog and you are so right! I wish that everyone could read this-and benefit from it.
Thank you.
[Reply]
This is an absolutely brilliant post. You nailed what is often a mystery for so many women. I particularly like how you flip things around, asking how women would feel if their lovers were always wanting to fix them, make them better. Thanks for sharing your powerful insight.
[Reply]
I completely disagreed with this entire post until this sentence: “You don’t teach people how to treat you. You simply know how you must be treated and accept nothing else.”
I feel that in all relationships – romantic and otherwise – we only receive the minimum of what we ask for. I see so many woman-folk accepting crappy treatment from lovers, bosses, family members and friends. When they complain to me about it I say “ok, well why are you accepting that sort of behavior?” Stumps ‘em every time.
Thanks for a great post – adding your blog to my reader and waiting for more great thoughts!
xxMeg
[Reply]
[...] was reading this post by the glorious Kelly Diels about that classic Dr Phil line: “You teach people how to treat [...]
Amen to this article! Finally, someone out there who ‘gets it’ and doesn’t subscribe to this crazy pop psychology. I HATE this Dr. Phil (or whomever’s) saying that we teach others how to treat us. I agree with the author that we only have to do that if they were raised by wolves (and sadly in this day and age it seems many are). So, maybe it has become a necessity with many dysfunctional folks but it should not be so! I totally believe and know that it is EACH PERSON’s MORAL OBLIGATION TO POLICE THEMSELVES!! To blame the victim for someone treating them badly is just criminal. Do I seriously need to ‘set boundaries’ with everyone because they are so immoral they don’t know that they should set their own? Just because I can get away with treating a meek person badly and then I do so, was that THEIR fault? Hell, no! I, and I alone will answer for my bad behavior…it is no one else’s obligation to teach me as an adult how to behave. Technically, we can hurt children and pets because they will “let us”, but if we are healthy people then we don’t mistreat them!…why? Was it because they ‘taught’ us not to? No! It’s because we should know better! God help us if we don’t police ourselves and do the right thing SIMPLY because it is the right thing to do. The measure of a man or woman is how they treat those weaker than themselves…not how they begrudingly react to someone who HAD to put up boundaries and teach them how to behave in a civilized manner. I don’t need anyone to control me if I am controlling myself properly…as I should be.
[Reply]
[...] It is okay NOT to teach people how to treat you. Unless they were raised by wolves. Then Cold Play o… * [...]