Here’s something I learned recently*: a guy I know basically has a Facebook enterprise hooking up with good girls gone wannabe bad.
He was a bit of a bad-ass in high-school and now he’s getting all the formerly good girl ass. There’s something about thirty-five and freshly divorced that brings out the wild child in the most sedate of women.
Enter Facebook and high school crushes and oodles of witty banter, for months and months and months and months. I turned down invitations half-heartedly.
Oh yes, this isn’t just a commentary on a phenomenon. I’m embedded in said phenomenon.
Finally, there was a date.
I knew within seconds - hell I knew before – of seeing him again that there was not going to be a Relationship. Or even another date.
I knew when I got to his house, too. The framed hockey jerseys and thousands of dollars worth of expensive hooch made me think: aging frat boy, with money. Not my thing.
Still, there was witty conversation. I’ve done way worse things for way less.
And to his credit, he straight up said this is just sex.
And I wanted to have sex. So I did. It was okay.
And then…(real writers don’t use ellipses) I heard from one of my friends that she was at a craft thingie with another woman we went to high school with who had a similar story about our aging frat boy. I think it was even the same restaurant.
And she, like me, was the formerly good girl in high school now gone wanton. And divorced. Recently.
So then of course we asked around and poked around on his Facebook page. And, like, ick.
I think I’m supposed to be outraged.
I’m not. I don’t really care about the sex part because nothing was extracted from me. I own my sexuality. Sometimes I lend it freely.
The kind of icky thing is the design of it. And the fact that it works.
Which made me get to digging to excavate the dynamics of this operation.
Because I think there are people – women – who would feel intensely betrayed by this scenario. The wooing, the drawn-out seduction.
(Some of us don’t listen when we hear “this is only sex.”)
But none of that is what creeps me out. What gives me pause is the set-up. The profiling.
Yeah, he’s totally in business development.
The sad thing isn’t the ends to which heterosexual men will go to, for sex. The sad thing, to me, is that we raise women, in essence, to be exploited. To be served up as prey to a predatory culture.
We teach them to be swept away. We teach them to be emotional about sex and make sexual decisions based on sweet feelings and seduction and romance, and, basically deception and manipulated.
(Should make a pretty serious mofo caveat here: I am not the Prime Minister of Emotional Land, but that’s only because I got all emotional during the vote and was weeping in the ladies room when it all went down. So I’m not poo-pooing ‘those emotional women’ for being emotional about sex. I know for emo. I live there.)
I blame fairy tales. They contain a formula for interpersonal disaster.
Here is what fairy tales - and I’m including my beloved romance novels and chick flicks in this genre – teach girls and women:
- to make decisions based on chemical cocktails that feel like “love”
- to learn to crave being swept off your feet
- to know that handsome princes pose as frogs and things are not as they seem and that you can transform the frog into a prince
- sex is a cookie to be doled out only to the deserving and that if you have wanton enjoyable rewarding sex then you’re of poor moral character.
In essence: fairy tales teach women to be lied to, to see ‘beyond’ appearances (ie accept men for other than their appearance) make sexual decisions based on possible deception, and to abdicate sexual power.
Fairy tales teach women to be led. To be led into it. Then we can claim: but he lied to me, or I thought he loved me, and be absolved.
That’s the mythological castle we allow our girls to inhabit.
And then Mystery and other wackadoo pick up artists teach lonely, awkward, inexperienced young heterosexual men how to game the princess thing:
- Engage their emotions.
- Seem of higher status (a prince).
- Make them feel it.
It’s kind of icky, isn’t it? We teach women to abdicate their self-knowledge and sexual power – to be princesses – and then we teach men to game the fairy tale.
It is actually more than icky. It is heart-breaking. We’re all missing out on so much. What’s missing: intimacy. To know and be known.
While it is undeniably true that crap relationships are nine thousand levels of hell, passionate, transformative, loving relationships are the best thing in the world. And some days I marvel that we can fight our way through the myths and the curtains to find each other at all.
Still, I’m not upset that I got snowed into mediocre sex because in the words of my wannabe imaginary altar ego, Mae West, I used to be Snow White but I drifted.
_______________
by ‘recently’, I mean last year. It just occurred to me that as I get older, the scope of my ‘recently’ is expanding. Soon, I’ll be saying ‘why just yesterday…’ about things that happened ten years ago.
Awesome post, Kelly. It is INCREDIBLY icky. It makes for horrible disappointment and hardship later.
Many men I know complain that women always change and you can never understand them. Bingo… you hit it on the head. How we are educated as kids. These young girls find themselves as women in their 30s and 40s and all hell breaks loose. Well… it was bound to happen sometime.
I saw Slumdog Millionaire and disliked it for this reason. It was well made… but the lead female character is nothing but a barbie doll sex toy that everyone wants. We learn nothing about her character. The one who wants her most will get her. It’s that simple. What she wants… doesn’t even exist.
There’s nothing wrong with letting yourself get swept away in a moment. But living your whole life this way is harmful.
I hear some folks, especially men, talk about how sexism is a thing of the past. This is a good example of how it’s not. It doesn’t matter how financially self-sufficient you get, how many glass ceilings you break through, how tough you can be… so many women grew up with and still subconsciously harbor this hidden sense of femininity-as-object shit floating around in their heads and act with this energy toward other women (another big offshoot of the same problem). You better believe that sexism is quite alive and having a blast.
Oh, and by the way, sexism hurts men, too.
[Reply]
“I blame fairy tales.”
I’m with you there, but there’s something about 3 of the subsequent bullet points I can’t go along with.
The problem with fairy tales is that they’re fairy tales. That is… They set unreasonable expectations of an impossible ideal. I’d posit that men despise this to its core and would be happy if a fairy tale never informed another woman for the rest of history.
Men aren’t raised on romance novels and fairy tales. We’re raised knowing that women are raised on romance novels and fairy tales. Knowing that is to know the game is rigged with unreasonable expectations. To cope, men tend to take a reactionary course. This presents with symptoms like months of witty banter and flirtation. That isn’t pickup… It is, as you mentioned, gaming the princess thing.
Pickup isn’t about playing into the fairy tale. It’s about throwing a wrench in the gears of the fairy tale machine. It works because it resonates on a deeper level that the fairy tale construct overlooks… and overlooks to the detriment of all of us.
[Reply]
Mitch
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 4:55 am
@Andrew, “Pickup” works because, in a world so deprived of intimacy, it’s easy. Real intimacy is not easy. You have to be vulnerable and share yourself. With pickup techniques, the whole point is to get in there with minimal risk.
So many men are starving inside for another way… but conventional masculinity offers none, because it’s a monochromatic wall of in-chargeness.
Wanna break through? Listen up, men: Let go. Allow yourself to be vulnerable. Allow others to see this vulnerability. Let yourself be weak, openly emotional, gentle, subtle. LISTEN… there’s so much out there that you are missing. Don’t fall prey to either-or mindsets, or competitive thinking. You don’t need to be better than anyone else. The world isn’t black and white. There are many other kinds of physical touch out there besides fucking that you can share with your loved one…. Take a deep breath. Relax. You don’t have to try anymore. You can put down the mask and be you.
[Reply]
Andrew
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@Mitch, saying something works because it’s easy is not a logical statement; it just isn’t.
The view that “the whole point is to get in there with minimal risk” is a very cynical interpretation. I’m not buying it. The whole point is simply… use tools that work. If something works and it’s easy, avoiding it is masochism by definition.
Side-Note: Perhaps we should be talking about fairy tales in terms of their sado-masochistic undertones.
Your claim that “real intimacy is not easy” is also rather cynical. If that’s the point at which you want to begin the conversation, too much of the work is still in front of us.
[Reply]
Mitch
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
@Andrew, real intimacy should be easy… but it isn’t, especially for men! Hence the lure of an “easy way.” REAL intimacy goes beyond “tools that work,” that’s the thing. Tools are great… but these “pick-up artists” teach them in the context of the barren, intimacy-starved concept of “scoring.”
Being really intimate involves crossing a threshold especially for men, because we have been brought up to be exclusively manly. And being manly means always being in control and never letting the weakest, most vulnerable parts of you out. Intimacy involves sharing your emotions, your hopes, your fears, your soul…. Many men can’t even be honest with themselves about these things, let alone another person.
Thus the allure of minimal risk, and of an “easy way.”
A man has to look like he has “game,” so to speak. Why not build genuine self-confidence and maturity, instead? The Pick-up Artist is not teaching any of that. He’s not asking these young men to look inside themselves and ask themselves what they really want, and how they can connect their desires to the desires of the women they meet. It’s all game.
If that’s a man’s idea of dating and romance, well, then, intimacy will seem damned hard, and unnecessary.
[Reply]
Kelly Diels
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 7:18 am
@Andrew, pick up works, as you say, because it is emotionally resonant. Nothing wrong with that. If that is all it was, then I’d think it was just a pretty useful way for men to understand how to to talk to and engage women.
My issue with the PUA community is when those techniques are used to emotionally engage someone in order extract sex. That is damaging and uses people – women – as ends. And there seems to me to be a pretty visible and extreme element of the PUA community that is about conquering more than sex. That shit is just creepy.
And did I mention damaging?
Finally, after I went to bed last night, I thought more about this piece and frankly got a little tired of myself. I’m getting tired of “men are this” and “women are that”. I’m going to have to find a different way to talk about this. There is more variation within those groups – and people who fall right out of those groups – than my stereotypes allow.
[Reply]
Andrew
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
@Kelly Diels, I mostly agree. I’m opting out of responding directly because I’m not an apologist for the PUA community… and it’s starting to feel like that’s where this is headed. Despite having researched it to depths beyond most, I’m not a part of the community or their obsession with online stripper names. From other conversations, you know that isn’t really where my interest rests.
The huge disconnect that prevents conversations from getting beyond Mitch’s last reply above, and into enlightening territory, simply reinforces my motivation to finish writing my book.
I would caution against conflating everything that’s “icky” and pickup. That does seem to be the zeitgeist.
[Reply]
I so get what you have written. I even see it 13 years post marriage. And, I truly do not know how we – women – stop it.
[Reply]
I want to leave a comment – because I want you to know that I think you are beyond words amazing. But I have nothing to add. Your post is perfect. It is brilliant. It should be in the hall of fame of women’s literature, study and philosophy. I do believe this is biblical in its importance.
Write a fucking book already. Change the lives of women everywhere.
[Reply]
What Julie said.
[Reply]
It’s a game. The question I have is where did the fairy tale come from? Isn’t it partially from the real desires and real chemicals of real men and women that those stories arose?
In other words, while I understand the commercialization of the stories and I agree they do indoctrinate girls and boys into that storyline, isn’t it true that girls and boys, men and women, created those stories in the first place because they were what they wanted, what satisfied their desire?
If we started fresh, no media, no commerce, no baggage, what would the stories of desire look like? How different would they be? I don’t know.
[Reply]
Yeah, what Julie said, like times 10!
Accept, don’t discount the men who fall for the counter “tale”, because yes, you are correct that stereotypes are bad mojo.
Being a strong assertive, sexually alert and responsible PERSON should not be attributed to male or female, it should just BE.
In my humble, $.02 opinion, tearing down stereotypes and shattering the “fairy tales” could be as simple as not giving them credence.
[Reply]
I do believe in fairy tale traps, I DO believe in fairy tale traps.
But – how do I (we) teach dearest daughter(s) the REAL story? The lure of fairy tales IS the fluffy, dressed up fantasy. Offering up science, morality and psychology as bedtime fodder is about as appealing as a serving of oh-so-good-for-you spinach. Which I can appreciate, but daughter? Not so much.
[Reply]
Chris
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
@ami | 40daystochange, on the other hand, offering up fairy tales and societal programming are a load of sugary sweets that will eventually bloat her ego and make everything else that much harder for her.
Mental nourishment is as important as physical, if not more so today. She might even enjoy it, but you won’t know until you fail=succeed. If you present them in the form of a fairy tale, is she old enough to notice the difference?
I ask because when I was little my father told me stories from his childhood as bedtime stories and I loved them far more (and remember them better) than any fairy tale. He’d use them to illustrate important lessons he’d learned in life like, “Think about the physics of what you’re going to do BEFORE you do it,” among others.
As a child, my parents were my world, so I found his stories interesting and sometimes relevant.
[Reply]
ami | 40daystochange
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
@Chris, what a great illustration Chris. It’s a little more effort to cast our own experiences as stories than reading a pre-printed book – but the payoff, as you suggest, is greater. thanks.
[Reply]
But don’t we all have stereotypes based on our own experience?
I hear you Jaszy – I get it, I know and love many people that fall outside of both stereotypes Kelly highlighted above and on either side… but isn’t it human nature to put things into boxes and categories so they make sense? to us?
[Reply]
Chris
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Shannon, the problem with giving human nature a moral blank check is that it arose as a way to survive through millions of years of pre-industrial conditions. Our physical environment has become less of a threat to us in the last thousand years and our social environment is changing faster and faster in an attempt to adapt to technology.
Change is occuring so fast that normal evolution cannot keep up with our needs as a species, so we must fight against our nature in those areas of our lives where it no longer benefits us.
The boxes and labels no longer benefit us.
[Reply]
Again, what Julie said.
[Reply]
We spend far too much time talking about equality and trying to establish something that is “fair.” Much of it is a waste of time.
It reminds me of trying to say that apples and oranges are equivalent because they are both pieces of fruit. We don’t have to do that.
There is no reason why we can’t accept that we are different and that because of this we react and respond differently to life. That doesn’t have to be a bad thing or viewed in a negative light.
[Reply]
Kelly,
I get what you are saying. I’m an emotional whirlwind. Up and down and obsessive and then completely worn out from my obsessiveness.
My 14 year old daughter is much more like my husband and is very steady as she goes, independent and pragmatic. Not such a drama queen like me.
I think I’m glad.
The words “Aging frat boy” just kind of grosses me out. You know – the visual.
AND, weirdly enough, the Pickup Artist was on the local radio show I listened to this morning and they totally mocked him when he got off. What a goof ball.
Keep the thought provoking posts coming:) I enjoy joining in!
[Reply]
Very well-written article with a multitude of excellent points. Speaking as a man, I, for one, am always relieved to meet a woman who grown out of the fantasy of fairy tale romance.
Then, we can get down to the real business of Eros, which, as you know, is found in the mundane, or not at all.
[Reply]
@Ami: I believe in fairy tales too! For a moment, anyway. Role-playing is good for the mind, it gets us to places we might never go if we didn’t imagine. However…
@Jack: There’s nothing inherently wrong with a fairy tale… as long as we know it’s not actually real. The problem is the implicit [and explicit] teaching of fairy tales as truth. Like the teaching that it’s ok to bomb remote Vietnamese villages with napalm to fight Communism. Not quite the same thing, but both are very harmful.
@Debbie: nothing against fraternities, but just the word “frat boy” without the “aging” feels gross enough. Not all fraternity members are like that, of course, but the term “frat boy” now has a mind of its own, and describes a type that I would likely steer my friends clear of, stereotypically speaking.
@Nicki: how to stop it? Talk about it, like Kelly is doing here and like I’m doing on my blog (see the link in the first comment – I tackle the injustice on the male side of things).
@Marty: No. Neither men nor women want to be forced into roles. We accept it cause it’s what we know. The need, in more modern societies, to create an ideology that protected future generations caused all these mores to apply to women about staying home, rearing the kids… and finding a man who will fight for and protect the family. Now that we are not living in pre-industrial times anymore, we can move on. But it will be a slow process.
@Jaszy: I’m queer, and one of the things about being queer is being clear about the role of this icky, damaging mythology in society and divorcing yourself from it. And it feels so good! We should all get divorced from misleading fairy tales, but in a way that allows us to still be on speaking terms with them even though we aren’t in love with them anymore.
[Reply]
I’ve been preaching these same things for years now. I read the book that made Mystery famous “The Game”. And I tried some of the “tricks” the next day to find out that they actually worked. It broke my heart and I threw the phone numbers I had easily gotten away in disgust. My fiance is one of those women who believe that its far easier for a woman to walk into a bar and take home a man than it would be for a man to take home a woman. I told her about the “fairytale” idea. And that sadly for men and for women, attraction, and whatever it leads to is a simple equation. Women just do it shorthand while men have to show their work.
I’m still disgusted that its so easy and predictable. I want some random car crash love coincidences or something.
Ignorance was bliss.
[Reply]
Mitch
replied:
on January 26th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
@ocbenji, don’t be so disgusted. You threw the phone numbers away. You did the right thing.
All of you… whether or not you consider yourselves queer or not, you should check out different kinds of queer theory about relationships. It’s such a wonderful breath of fresh air.
[Reply]
I don’t think I can add anything, but I definitely wanted to throw my two cents in and say that I LOVED this post. You put it so well, Kelly!
& Mitch, I enjoyed your comments too – off to read your blog
[Reply]
Oh, thanks Michelle! I loved this post too! It’s so necessary to out these icky tenets that we subconsciously stick by!
[Reply]
The really clever guys are the ones who can set up their little cottage industries and at the same time cultivate honest to goodness authentic intimacy. Bastards.
Even worse, it turns out I’m not a good writer…
[Reply]
I think the problem doesn’t lay in PUA. They’re “acting”, playing a game… isn’t it so obvious?
IMHO, the problem is most people don’t want to face reality, because reality isn’t charming, or plainly sucks.
So those people believe in fairy tales or prince charming, instead… they believe the PUAs, because they “buy” into the dream.
It’s true PUAs “use” those women… but isn’t the same for the very same women? Do they love those PUAs? I think not.
Both the parties involved are chasing their own dreams. PUAs call it “scoring”, wannabe princesses call it “love”.
But, if those women would be really looking for love, they would search for intimacy, honest communication, deep sharing… not just being “swept away”.
If those women would be looking for reality (and real love), they would easily spot the PUAs games (like Kelly did)… they’re smarter than that.
You believe in (those kind of) lies, only if you’re willing to believe them.
So, who’s to blame? The conner, or the (willing) conned?
The fairy tale, or who’s believing the tale is real?
[Reply]
@Mitch,
I suspect that our world views are very different in many ways. I am not disregarding your words or saying that your opinion isn’t valid, but I just don’t see the world the way that you do.
Fairy tales aren’t inherently evil as long as we understand that they are fairy tales. It is not inherently bad or wrong to try and live out the fairy tale as long as everyone understands what is going on.
It reminds me of discussions where people say that they want men and women to be equal in every way. To me that is silly. We are different and different doesn’t mean bad.
It doesn’t mean that we don’t try to establish equality where it makes sense. But there are some things that women can do that men can’t and vice versa. That is perfectly fine.
We have some established roles because they make sense in every aspect of the word.
Anyway, I don’t want to hijack the thread.
[Reply]
Today I’m thinking “so what”. So what if we choose casual sex. So what if we have different motives. So what if I don’t get what I want. So what if you don’t get what you want. Just plain: SO WHAT.
It’s all good. It’s part of today’s human condition. I think you say this, Kelly. It’s okay that all this happens. It’s life. Eyes wide open. It’s 100% okay until our next experience occurs and that one will be okay too.
Like agile cats, we land on our feet.
But we stealthy keep looking for our next encounter.
Will we change the world? Absolutely!
Kelly… keep it coming!
[Reply]
This fellow has set up an interesting rental service of himself. Perhaps, he should receive an out of the blue call, from a lady “placing her order”, for some mediocre sex.
He is basically a gigilo who “pitches” customers, to work for free.
[Reply]
Is there a lesbian version of your frat-boy? I want to be exploited and would settle for witty banter. No such luck. I’m in my prime (useless).
I prefer it not be mediocre. I prefer it be love. But…
I say it ain’t exploitation if you’ve been told UP FRONT.
[Reply]
Jeremy
replied:
on February 21st, 2010 at 4:51 am
@Kelly, That’s just it though… You’re never *really* told up front. It’s after the seduction has started digging into you. Just because you’re told before sex that it is “just sex” does not mean it was truly up front. At that point, most are already somewhat invested. It’s far too easy to just gloss over that those words and let yourself hope for more. Everyone reacts differently, and some much less savvy than others. It is doubtful that someone would tell you before dinner, before even the witty banter, that this was just sex.
[Reply]
Kelly
replied:
on February 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 am
@Jeremy,
Ah. I’m talking about it being a mutually arranged, up front, before witty banter, let’s just have sex because we both need it arrangement. Nothing else. I agree, some people may hope for just sex (for some people there truly is such a thing…generally not me but I respect those people for whom it is-and feel sad for them at the same time) and not be clear. But, my reply was certainly about total transparency.
Peace!
K.
[Reply]
So beautifully and poignantly stated. And to think, the myths perpetuated by fairy tales follow us damn-near to middle age. Intimacy is a whole other ballgame. Well said, my sister!
[Reply]
Thank you Kelly, you are fantastic…keep writing..
[Reply]
Interesting take on fairy tales. I might have to rethink my fantasies about being swept off my feet. No, I definitely do.
[Reply]
Great entry. I agree with much of what you have said. While truly in the minority, some men have similar issues (though it obviously plays out differently). I know my own overblown sense of romanticism (whether applied to relationships or life in general) has caused equal amounts of pain and joy, but I still can’t seem to let go of it.
[Reply]